Saturday, April 10, 2010

If Rick Warren Is A Heretic, What Does That Make John Piper?

The defense of John Piper rests on the presupposition that Warren is not a heretic. The defense would fall apart if that presuppostion was wrong.

Webster defines "heretic" as one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine.

In the case of a confessing evangelical, the Bible would be the standard of belief and doctrine.

Let’s take a look at just a few components of Warren’s ministry:

* Warren endorses Roman Catholic mystics in his PDL book
* Warren embraces New Age sympathizer Leonard Sweet and Red Letter Christian Tony Campolo, both by definition, hold heretical positions on a variety of subjects.
* Warren advocates the removal of church members that will not conform to the PD church growth model which turns a congregation into a crowd for the sake of unbelievers.
* Warren asked the god of Islam for forgiveness.
* Warren’s Celebrate Recovery program is a Christianized version of Alcoholics Anonymous, whose founder was steeped in bondage to spiritualism and communed for decades with unclean spirits.
*Warren’s PEACE plan is communitarianism / religious socialism
*Warren’s SHAPE program is based on Jungian psychology. Jung practiced
necromancy, and had daily contact with disembodied spirits, which he credited as the source of much of his writings. Jungian philosophy also impact A-A’s 12 step program.
*Warren believes that Roman Catholicism is a legitimate expression of Christianity.
*Warren declared that the future of the world is not secularism, it’s religious pluralism.
*Rick Warren’s worldly approach to ministry and his famous Scripture twisting, by default, denies the sufficiency of Scriptures.

By the Biblical standard, any of these issues would conflict with the Biblical standard. Any of these issues would create a heretical position antithetical to the Scriptures and would require rebuke and correction.

Not endorsement or a tacit wink of approval.

What one does defines what he truly believes.

John Piper took a great liberty in not verifying Rick Warren’s statements. He has erred in judgment and example by doing so. There is still time to repent and restore.

We are all like sheep.

Matthew 24:4And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.

13 comments:

  1. "There is still time to repent and restore."

    Well said Jim. Dr. Piper really does need to withdraw his invitation for the good of the church.

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  2. Whilst I'm no fan of Rick Warren, two points:

    (1) Piper is a highly qualified and well-respected theologian. As you are taking issue with him, do you have any similar credentials?

    (2) You have not provided any substantive references for the accusations you have made about Warren.

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  3. Could I make a suggestion? Please go into the background of Warren, his teachers, Robert Schuller, Peter Drucker, his relation to the Coucil on Foreign Relations, etc. That will show people that he is corrupt even before he became "pastor." Nov. 28, 2006 Berit Kjos has a good documented article on Warren and his relationship with the world's big names.
    He fits perfectly with what Paul calls Satan's ministers of "righteousness."
    It makes me wonder what Piper has been hiding all this time. Dave Sommer

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  4. Anonymous, you said:

    "You have not provided any substantive references for the accusation you have made about Warren."

    First of all, are you serious? Every single thing on that list can be verified with a simple Google/YouTube/Purpose Driven Life search. Maybe if you took a few moments to look it up yourself, you would realize that each and every item on the list can be verified quite simply.

    Don't defend John Piper merely because he is a "highly qualified and well-respected theologian". There are many "highly qualified" and "well-respected" (by various groups) theologians who are greatly out of line with scripture. This is not to say this about John Piper, but I say that to point out that your inference is illogical to say the least.

    If we are going to call ourselves Bible-believing Christians, then we must do due diligence in exposing error. John Piper made a SEVERELY grave error in defending Warren as sound, and his inferences at the end of his video in defense of Warren are even worse with respect to Warren's critics.

    I don't care if you are a "fan" of Warren or not - Rick Warren is a false teacher. Period. He tickles the ears of whomever he is speaking to at the moment, a religious chameleon if you will. He is not an agent of the God of Heaven - he is an agent of the god of this world that is seeking to unify all under himself. Rick Warren is an agent of darkness, masquerading as an agent of light. Everything he does, if evaluated rationally and logically, is to this end. Why many supposed Christians fail to see this is due to the fact that they are either completely ignorant of the subject, Bible illiterate, both, or they willfully reject the facts and decide to "not create division".

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  5. Most people have a sheep mentality. That's why Jesus told as 1.Matthew 10:16
    Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matthew 10:16
    Nothing wrong with being like sheep, just make sure you have the right Shepherd. Have only Jesus as your Shepherd and His Word as the final authority.

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  6. Dear Anonymous #1

    Credentials? I have none. Piper is a respected theologian who has made a great mistake.

    Credentials are earned and bestowed by men, discernment is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Substantive references? This blog currently has 519 posts regarding Warren's aberrent theology. I just mentioned a few of his issues in the post. You will find the references there if you care to look for them.

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  7. So, if Piper repents and dis-invites Warren, that will put Piper back in your "orthodox" category? Really?

    Piper believes and teaches that all people have the truth inside of them and that they need to listen to their hearts to hear God calling them. This is the basis for his Desiring God ministry, books, conferences, etc. He teaches that evangelism works because the evangelist is able to touch that part of the hearer that is deep inside and get the hearer to recognize that it has been God that he has been searching for all along.

    Obviously, this is NOT what the Bible says. Piper is dead wrong. So, with this foundational belief, it is not surprising that Piper is now linking up with people like Rick Warren. This has been a long time coming. I don't expect Piper to change his mind about inviting Warren, but if he does, it will only be because he is trying to not lose a big part of his audience.

    Maybe you should do some research on Piper, not just Warren.

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  8. Pipers response was well thought out and calculated in his video response as to why he allowing Rick Warren.

    I am personally not a Rick Warren fan ... my only critique of RW is that his books are "simplistic" (not meaty) ... but I dont see doctrinal error as much as an avoidance of doctrinal hot buttons. He is a pragmatist and he allows pragmatism to be the vehicle for his outreach. Take his pragmatism or leave it but thats the real reason why people dont like Rick Warren.

    I live in a city where Piper is seen as the Golden standard of truth. My reasons for me not attending Pipers Church (its very close to me) has been that the twin cities is a very sophisticated network of Churches. People Church hop. My reason for not attending Pipers Church has always been I dont want to be around a bunch of "truth seekers" that are legallisticly sinful and see the logs on other peoples eyes but don't see the log in their own eye.

    Now I am actually considering attending Pipers Church. He is drawing a minor dividing line and separating himself from the just as sinful "always looking to find a heretic" separatists.

    I now see Piper as a guy who is really striving toward Gods standard more than ever before. he has gained my respect a bit.

    And all of this from a guy that is not necessarilly a Rick Warrren fan!

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  9. "So, if Piper repents and dis-invites Warren, that will put Piper back in your "orthodox" category? Really?"

    No, it will undo the validation of Warren's ministry.

    I research Warren because of my personal experience with PDL. I am not a student of John Piper. I have been blessed by many of Piper's messages in the past.

    You are welcome to provide references to share the information you have.

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  10. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x47yj7_john-piper-says-listen-to-your-scre_school

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x486sg_john-piper-says-god-is-like-bill-cl_news

    Here are a couple of videos that highlight Piper's false teaching. Please note that I, too, have been blessed by the two Piper articles that I have read. Five years ago, those two articles introduced me to the doctrines of grace. However, I never felt the need to read more of Piper. When the Warren thing happened a couple of weeks ago, I did a bit of research on Piper and now I realize why I never quite felt comfortable at Piper's website and never did go back to read more of his articles.

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  11. I am not all that familiar with much of John Piper's work, either. I already knew Rick Warren was a heretic, but after watching some of John Piper's material, including at the links above, I have some serious concerns about his beliefs as well. Though he *seems* much more gospel-centered, his beliefs about everyone knowing God and just having to be reminded of this is complete heresy as well. It seems as if he is saying that everyone is actually saved if they would just recognize it and achieve their potential. If this is the case, I suppose it is not surprising that one heretic would invite another heretic to his conference.

    It is difficult to ascertain who is good anymore because there is just so much error that goes unchecked and unacknowledged. We know that in the last days there will be a great falling away, and that many will err from the truth. This contradicts what many pastors are saying, including false teachers like David Jeremiah who teaches that he believes there is going to a be a great harvest of souls right before Jesus comes. Again, no match to scripture, just his own (wrong) belief.

    Christians, stay close to scripture and let that be your test. Don't regard any one person so highly that, if they err, you will defend them anyway. That is idolatry. We are to regard Christ Jesus and His Word, and that's it. If every preacher in America willfully errs from the truth and is unrepentant, than we would have to reject them all as stewards of the faith we received.

    May God have mercy on His people.

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  12. You have to remember something here, guys. Piper has been doing this Wolf-fest for YEARS. This isn't a sudden lapse in judgment. He has shown the same arrogance and defiance in the men he invites to the DGC pulpit like Mark X-Rated Driscoll, Paul "s***" Trip, Federal Visionist (anti-Justification by FAITH alone) Doug Wilson, and now Tricky Ricky. This is the fruit of Pipers' "Christian" Hedonism.

    Also, Scripture says this partiality of men is SIN:

    Jas 2:1 My brothers, SHOW NO PARTIALITY as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory... 3 and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, "You sit here in a good place," while you say to the poor man, "You stand over there," or, "Sit down at my feet," 4 have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?Jas 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well. 9 But IF YOU SHOW PARTIALITY, YOU ARE COMMITTING SIN and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

    Consider this as well:

    Gal 2:6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)--those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me.

    Get rid of your Magisterium Mentality. Your guy not only could be wrong, but in this case IS wrong.

    I consistantly test my pastors and teachers at church by Scripture and sometimes they are wrong. You can't hide behind someone of repute; you are accountable for doing the work of testing and sifting yourself. I'm amazed at the laziness of so many "Christians".

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