Wednesday, March 7, 2007

Warren Blames Church Splits on Indulgent Christians

From ABC's NIGHTLINE, Wed March 7, 2007

"Warren's "outside in" approach to church growth is now causing rumblings. This past fall, The Wall Street Journal published an article titled "Purpose driven methods divide." Some evangelicals object to 'Madison Avenue' marketing of churches that follow author's advice. " In North Wilkesboro, N.C., one church exemplifies this schism..."

"You know, I wouldn't intentionally want to cause pain to any person or to anyone," Warren said. "Am I willing to put up with pain so the people [that] Jesus Christ died for can come to know him? Absolutely."

Warren said that if some churches may suffer as a result of applying some of those principles, then "that's the price."

"Every church has to make the decision. … Is it going to live for itself, or is it going to live for the world that Jesus died for?" (emphasis mine. Is that the call of the Body of Christ , living for the world? )

When asked if he thinks that some of these splits are actually because Christians themselves are indulgent and refusing to change, Warren said, "Oh, without a doubt."

And when asked if he blames them, he replied, "I do blame them."

Read transcript of interview . Video clip Rick Warren on ABC Nightline

From the editor:
Here are two actual, real life "Calls From The Faithful". The folks that Rick Warren agrees are indulgent, and are the source of pain in PDL church splits.

An Appeal by a Believer to His Pastor .
An appeal that went unanswered.

An Address To a SBC Deacon Body .
An address that received the response, "There's nothing improper about the teaching or personal conduct of the staff."

Listen to another call to return to a firm commitment to the true Gospel. Dr. Michael Youssef delivered a stirring message during the recent 2007 NRB Convention.
The Mike Corley Program.

Steve Lawson calls to fellow pastors at the The Shepherd's Conference, March 7, 2007 .
"...biblical preaching is being displaced by other things. Exposition is being replaced by entertainment; Theology for theatrics; Unfolding drama of redemption is being replaced by just plain drama. Preaching is out, dialogue is in."


  1. I saw your post mentioned on CRN, and came by because I just posted on same topic, and we both zeroed in on:

    “Every church has to make the decision…. Is it going to live for itself, or is it going to live for the world that Jesus died for?”

    It seems almost unbelievable that he would think he could say such a thing with impunity. But then he's one of the kings of the earth now.

    thanks for the post,


  2. Rick Warren is a leftist and a solid propogandist who knows how to " wrap a Herculean " lie in a sentence sprinkled with a " Christian " term.

    Warren uses the notion that Jesus died ,....which HE did... but twists Jesus dfeath into meaning something 100% antithetical and Unbiblical.

    Warren calls beleivers to drop Jesus Christs' own warnings about loving and conforming to the world and its' philosophies and antiChrist systems, ...and seeks to peddle disobedience and spiritual adultery with the World as evidence of "compassionate Christianity".

    This is Satanic doublespeak
    Something that the top liberals in this nation have perfected.

    I feel like I am in a George Orwell 1984 novel..

    Welcome to the apostasy and the False prophets,...who call evil ..good...and call "good"...evil

    Woe unto them


  3. Even now I say to you as Christ expressed so clearly, Do not be troubled. These things must be before his return. The apostasy is in full swing and while millions are lost with their itching ears, there are some who awaken and come out. Do not be caught asleep when the master of the house returns. Remain steadfast in his word. The church of today is on a very slippery slope and the part that puts a lump in my throat is that they want it that way.
    Be safe brothers and sister...

  4. I suppose according to Rick Warren, I would be classified as an 'indulgent Christian' especially since my husband and I were the victims featured in the Wall Street Journal article by Suzanne Sataline last September to which ABC makes reference. The only thing that didn't get told in the WSJ article was just how incredibly cruel these PD churches' pastors and leaders can truly be in their
    transitioning an older church to a purpose driven church to the people they perceive to be 'resistors'. It is horrible!

    I will stop here because the three posters before me have said it well.

    My fervent prayer is that the scales be removed from people's eyes.

  5. To David, Don, Joshua And Truth,

    Thank you for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. It is an ecncouragement.

    Truth, my family was in the midst of the attack when the WSJ article broke. The article was a source of strength and encouragement. Today, we attend a God Glorifying church that also was born out of the PDL pursuit at another church in our area.

    They mean it for evil, but God works it for our good and His glory !

  6. I thought the biblical method of living was to abandon ourselves to the Lord. We were created to serve Him.

    Yes it is true that Jesus said that whatever we do to the least, we do to Him.

    BUT, and this is a big part: What is the motivation behind our actions? Are we serving the world out of miscontrued worldview based on the PDL/PDC way of doing this, which uses bad hermeneutics all the way through,

    OR, is our motivation to love the Lord with all our heard, mindy, body and spirit, and to serve Him? And in doing so we serve others?

    See the difference? Read the PDL literature with critical thinking cap firmly in place and you'll see the poor translations and even the horrible "The Message" paraphrase is used. Verses of Scripture are ripped out of context, sometimes even only half a verse, to prove RW's point, which many times goes against normative biblical thinking and teaching.

    So reread RW's sentence, and you will see that it may look good, but 99% truth is still a lie.



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